« Too Rushed to be Persuaded | Main | A Woman's Seasons »

January 15, 2008

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341c7a1453ef00e54fdc88228833

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Legacy of Simone de Beauvoir:

Comments

Anna

I am so looking forward to this, Carolyn. I have read quite a bit on the subject of complementarianism, but reading a systematic and historical discussion of how we got to be where we are today - written by a former feminist - is going to be very helpful to me. And what you have so far looks excellent.

Kari

Amen and amen!!! I am surrounded by elementary school teachers in the public school who teach this to young minds. It is easy to get TRAPPED by this way of thinking, but reading this reminded me of my allegiance to Christ--that I must STAND FIRM in my role as a godly woman. One day I will stand before Him and I want to please HIM rather than the world.

Kathy Swistock

Hi, Carolyn. I had the pleasure of meeting you at Mike Pasalich's wedding. I really enjoyed this post, because as a homemaker with no natural bent toward it I have had a lifelong struggle with "the freedom to think, to be who God created me to be." Yes, I know the truth. Yes, I know feminism is cruel hogwash. But I recently met a liberal man at Alpha who did have an impact on me in spite of my better judgment; he even implied that my marriage was abusive because I put my homelife first, submitting to my husband and being willing to quell intellectual discussions if they threatened my home interests (which for me are easy to threaten). So anyway, I really look forward to your book as a unique boost to the truth I already know but am shaky in. Thanks!

Beth

I think it has worked well. The first 2 paragraphs however have a repetition of the lives of the women involved[about nervous breakdowns and abortions] and I thought it was abit unneccessary to have that in both paragraphs, but that it really aided understanding in the 2nd paragraph. Other than that, the rest of it flowed well.

I am really looking forward to this book and to the posts in the run up to it.I felt this keenly after giving a legal talk on the status of asylum seeking women, which left me in tears as I wasn't sure if I had brought the Gospel in disrepute, even as the talk itself was hailed as great! At one point I was saying how the Refugee Convention was drafted with your stereotypical male asylum seeker who is running away from a repressive government in mind, and therefore, women who may be fleeing gender related violence particularly from a non-state actor like an abusive husband, find it even more difficult to recieve asylum.It seems that I presented the situation so well, that in the question and answer session that followed I was genuinely worried that bras would begin going up in smoke, judging from the anger and male-bashing that followed!I kid you not.

Like I said, the talk was called a great sucess and I was invited to other forums which I turned down, simply because I felt my confessional theology and functional theology in that area is not matching up. So for example, one lady was extremely shocked to know that I was a christian, which I have been for a year, and wondered how my 'feminism' is affected.I was shocked that she, herself a radical feminist, called me a feminist!That made me stop and think. and think hard!I realized that I don't know how to engage with the objective gains made by the feminist movements such as the right to vote, or the oppression that some women do face at the hands of men in gender-related ways such as sexual violence, without coming across as encouraging bra burning...

While I may not use the words 'God', 'sin' 'redemption' 'justification' 'sanctification' 'Gospel' etc in the talks I give,I would want to have my thinking shaped and influenced by the Gospel in a way that is clear as day. At the moment, I am not even very sure what counts as 'feminist' as so much of it has infiltrated into general culture, and I for one does not know how to respond to feminist thinking...to be honest I never really did care, till the last 2 or so months!That's one of my goals this year Lord willing.

God has really been at work in my life and what a wonderful year it has been!I firmly believe in the importance of a local church and I am involved actively in mine, but I have also found that your blog, book and the other books I have come across through your blog and Gospel-centred, accessible-even-for-a-new-Christian book have really served to open up the Bible to me, and in changing one thing, so many other things have changed for His Glory and my good.So in addition to the other prayers that I do pray for you, I am praying that you hurry up and finish this book:-)

Kimberly

Carolyn,

Your post increased my excitement about your forthcoming book. Your subject matter is weighty but necessary for our culture, especially among Christian women. Speaking among my just-out-of-college female Christian friends, we agree that it is a daily battle to be a godly woman in this world of sin. Even at so-called "Christian" colleges and universities, women are encouraged (to put it lightly) to embrace the feminist philosophy and lifestyle because the role of a godly woman is viewed as archaic at best. I struggled with the world's ideals until I read Carolyn Mahaney's "Feminine Appeal." God used his word and her book to dramatically change my heart. Thank you for including this excerpt (which I think was well written) of your book. I look forward to the completed project and pray God will enable you to write nothing but truth that he would be glorified through your work.

amy

I think that sounds pretty balanced--and intriguing. (The last sentence in each of the first two paragraphs is redundant, btw...I think the info works better in the first.)

I really like this statement:

Feminism arose because women were being sinned against. I think that is a fair argument. But feminism also arose because women were sinning in response. That's a classic human problem--sinners tend to sin in response to being sinned against.

The glorious hope we have is that Christ came to rescue us from this spiral of sin and sinful response. Only the gospel can accurately diagnose the issues on both sides and offer the good news of forgiveness, redemption, and restoration.

That really whets my appetite for the book! Blessings to you as you write :)

Carolyn McCulley

Thanks to those who caught my cut-and-paste error with the repetitious sentences. I've now corrected the post. Much appreciate your contributions!

Angela

Fascinating. I look forward to reading your complete book!

in Christ,

angela

Angela

PS about 10 years ago I journeyed to France for a short term mission trip. Near the end we stayed in a former estate that Sartre owned. Who owns it now? Missionaries who love the Lord and use the property and it's estate for the glory of God! we had our debriefing time at the estate.

in Christ,

angela

Ariel Glenn

Carolyn, the evidence you gave of the young women who committed suicide and had abortions is a strong point. I think it would add to your argument if you made two connections a bit more strongly (you are hinting at them but maybe too gently). For instance, for all Sartre's argument that he thought women should be "free" what he meant was free to 'unshackle' themselves from the morals of the times which would have prohibited them from having illicit liaisons with him. (His notion of feminism was really meant to make women more vulnerable to sexual predation.) Is there anything in his letters where he speaks about voting, or abortion, or some other tangible evidence that might reveal what he actually thought feminism was/should be?

Second, I would make a stronger connection between the fact that all Beauvoir did in her "freedom" was to become predatory herself. She facilitated a loss of innocence and personhood of young women for the sake of meeting Sartre's voracious sexual appetite. Her 'freedom' then to fully be a woman meant acting like a sexual predator and basically a lackey for Sartre's demands. She was no more in control of herself and her own mind, heart, and soul than any other unsaved person. Her main contribution to the worlds' current framing of feminism is freedom to do what you want with your body, which is in direct contrast to Biblical directives that warn us that if we let our bodies dictate our lives, ultimately, they will dictate our souls.

Do you have any direct quotes from Beauvoir's diaries to give direct evidence that she really wanted to marry and settle down with Sartre? What you have thus far is your own conjecture that this is what she wanted but it would strengthen your argument to put it in her own words.
Wonderful writing and a much needed analysis of this topic for our world today!
Ariel

Hope

You've definitely achieved what you set out to achieve. Very interesting material. There's a lot of wisdom in these words. Thank you for sharing this post.

rebecca

Thanks for doing the research for this! If you dig, it's always there in unbelievers lives. It's so important for people to see that such postmodern role models cannot even consistently apply their own presuppositions to daily living. While studying Sarte (and Co.) in university, the profs never mentioned the dark side of his life. Like Beauvoir, these teachers would rather blindly accept sin than flee to Christ for salvation.

What a blessing it is that there are husbands who love their wives as Christ loved the Church.

Claire

I just wanted to congratulate on confronting such difficult issues. I have only just started reading your blog but as a Christian teaching critical theory in a British university your analysis of Sartre and de Beauvoir was timely and accurate. I really battle with teaching this sort of material to my students but I think it is important to confront such things while encouraging students to develop their own cognitive powers and to make up their own mind. In a secular university this is really all I can do. Please pray for Christian lecturers who are obliged to teach such things. We really need it!

Meredith

Carolyn,
thanks for the sneak peek at what looks to be a fascinating and timely book. I too find it interesting that so many radical feminist women had less than fulfilling lives. The sweetness of the gospel changes even the hardest circumstances into glory in the end. I think you balance your goals well here, and I was sorry when you ended the excerpt!

One thing always worries me about these sorts of books on feminism. As an adult convert and woman who does not fit the cookie-cutter 'mother and wife' role that the church wants all women to conform to, I am often troubled by the lack of balanced views when it comes to the exercise of women's gifts. You are a beautiful example of radical womanhood and your ministry is a great encouragement. I trust you to see more colours in the spectrum of women's lives and ministries than the narrow ones laid out by most (dare I say it? male) pastors.

Thank you - I look forward to reading the finished book!

Blessings,
Meredith

Trish Ryan

Your comments about how women were both sinning and being sinned against is so apt--I am excited to read your next book! When I read about Simone de Beauvoir, my heart aches. God has so much more for us, but sometimes it's not found among the choices we see in front of us. She did the best with what she thought she had, but wow, what a painful road it took her down.

jenny

Hi Carolyn
thanks for the taster of your forthcoming book - I'm even more excited about it now! So pleased you are taking on this subject. I think you've got it right here. You've summarised the sad relationship between them quite aptly, if my reading is anything to go by.

Sigh. Simone de Beauvoir. Promised so much. You might like to check further the comment about Simone being JPS's equal professionally and intellectually. I'd say at least his equal. In fact it's suggested she got the top prize but it had to go to a boy, so he got it, and that in fact she was brighter and more able. I'll dig out the bio that makes this point and post another comment.

One of the bios I have read about her is heavily annotated with my indignant comments about what comes across to me as her hypocrisy - or inability to live out her ideals - or put more kindly, her blindness to her own oppression, compromise and servitude. She seemed unable to see that she was imprisoned in an equally unsatisfactory institution, but one made more fashionable because it was the antithesis (at least on the surface ) of what she and JPS disdained in marriage. I should qualify in case there is any misunderstanding - I'm fully supportive of the institution of marriage as God designed it. I think in this day and age we are often seeing a corrupted model.

Oh joy! Can't wait to read your book!

Jenny

Jan

I will be the negative comment: I will not read your book - no interest in such (but I'm sure others will read/be interested).

Ephesians 5:1-21

1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

12 FOR IT IS SHAMEFUL EVEN TO MENTION WHAT THE DISOBEDIENT DO IN SECRET.

13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."

15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Joyce

I'm looking forward to your book... We in India have feminist reading as part of our academic curriculum for literature. While we are being taught to in-a-sense be "man-haters", reading into texts, behaviours, lives with a certain lopsided view, it often becomes difficult to keep one's head and think through things sensibly, lesser still Biblically.
A former feminist commenting on current feminism would be a wonderful help to trigger thought and maybe even articulate what we as beleivers know in the depths of our heart. Great job Carolyn, may God keep you going.

Aly

This is a very insightful summary of the relationship between Sartre and de Beauvoir. I read a bit of Sartre in college, but I did not know anything about the nature of his relationship with Simone de Beauvoir until I read your post. I find de Beauvoir's love life painfully contradictory of her philosophical stance - not only did she subject herself to a degrading relationship, but also she willingly subjected other women to terrible degradations. I think you should emphasize a bit more strongly that de Beauvoir, supposed champion of women's rights, participated in acts that violated other women's rights to personal safety and freedom.

The last two sentences of your excerpt evoke a markedly tragic irony about what de Beauvoir really valued versus what she claimed to value:

"Toward the end of her life, she said that nothing she achieved in her professional life was as great as her relationship with Sartre.

He died in 1980, cutting her out of his will and leaving his estate to his final mistress."

So chilling, the way you end the excerpt! How sad to think that all de Beauvoir's efforts to keep Sartre's affections apparently were to no avail.

Carolyn, I think you do a great job presenting the harsh truths of de Beauvoir's life with a balanced blend of honesty and discreetness. Not at all an easy topic to write for the Christian market, but much needed! Though Christians are not "of the world," we do live in the world, and we need to understand the difference between biblical principles and humanist ideals such as feminism.

A side note: Like Meredith, I also do not fit the "mother and wife" image of the Christian woman, and I hope your book will touch at least briefly on the role of single women in the church. Many church leaders seem to have difficulty placing singles, particularly single women, and therefore often avoid the issue or handle it very tentatively. I don't consider myself to be a feminist, but as a single woman I am especially interested in women's issues, and I want to understand how to be a contributing member of the church and of society.

Emily Shaheen

Carolyn, I'm so excited for your new book! I wish I could send this post to my college French prof. She almost worshiped Sartre and Beauvoir. She was from France and she really believed in their philosophies. She spent most of my class (French Feminist Authors) telling us why being a homemaker and mother was sub-human and to be like Simone de Beauvoir would be so much better. I don't think she was a very happy person. It makes me said when I read about these women who are held so captive by the world. Because, as you stated, it doesn't make them happy. It's only when we are living our lives as God intended that we find true joy. I'm praying for your book and its impact on our culture.

Jan

I am a single/divorced soon to be "55" year on this earth woman & kept beautifully by Christ. I see no reason to exalt the life of of these two people that didn't nor chose not to live for Christ.

It's not as if she was the woman at the well that was forgiven & told to go & sin no more - she was deceived till the end (of her life for eternity - an eternity that none of us would like to spend). I just think there are so many more worthy subjects/people for you to write about in a book - why put someone in "your" book that is by all probability (no fruit for sure in Christ) - in the Book of Life. I see no reason for these two people to be in a book written by a woman full of the Life of Christ - it just doesn't make sense to me. :) flygirljc/jano

Jan

One other thing I would like to comment on in regard to these comments: I'm so impressed with all the women that have blogs that have commented here & giving us/me an opportunity to go there & read how beautifully you all write - such talent God has given each of you. I would never have known any of you existed if I had not found Carolyn's blog/website through Desiring God (I'm sure - that is where I visit daily & receive emails to their blog & articles).

I am so humbled by all your giftedness in writing & communicating your heart(s) to us out here in internet land.

Thank you Lord for all these beautifully gifted woman that write Your heart for sure... :)

Carolyn McCulley

Jan -- So glad you've commented here. I hope I haven't given you the false impression that I am writing this book to exalt women like Simone de Beauvoir. Though I am not interested in trashing people with a different viewpoint, I am interested in examining the fruit of a life philosophy and how it affected both the life of that proponent and the culture at large. From there, I contrast it with what the Bible has to say about godliness in a woman. So to understand the implications of feminism, I believe we need to understand a little bit about the basic issues and those who support them. Thus this section. In the draft I am working on, we go from here into examining what God calls wisdom and freedom, and we conclude with a testimony from a godly woman who has seen that men are not the problem -- sin is. I hope that helps you to understand the trajectory of the book. Thanks for visiting!

Jan

I understand it full well - I guess I just don't think it is needed - but then again I have never been a feminist or wrestled with those type of issues. I was blessed to get to stay at home & raise my one & only son that is soon to be 25 & I cherish those years so much & miss them.

I understand why you are writing the book but it grieves me that two people with such sad lives & nothing to show for it are once again going to be noted in a book - it seems because of the choices they made - their lives should be silenced & will be when He returns (silenced from Him for an eternity).

I don't know or understand why I feel so radically passionate about this issue but I do - like there is a real check in my spirit about it & that is what you requested & that is why I am here & commenting. I'm just being transparent with all of you even though I chose to disagree (because I am led to by Him). I could go along with everyone else & say nice & encouraging things but that is not what I feel led to do - I am being authentic with my feelings in regard to your book & the two people you are contemplating noting. I hope you can understand where I am coming from too... :)

BTW: I read/check your blog daily & find that a little odd too... :)

Carolyn McCulley

Thanks, Jan! That's exactly why I asked for feedback. I'm glad you posted your comments. (As I am glad for the comments of everyone else, too!)

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

Facebook Is More Frequent

  • Wondering about the long time between posts on this blog? Well, most days I don't have much to say. But when I find interesting stories and links, I post them on my Facebook page. "Like" it and you'll get shorter updates via Facebook. Or just visit facebook.com/carolyncmcculley.

Radical Womanhood: The Book

Upcoming Events

  • Resolved Conference (Palm Springs, CA)
    I'm speaking at the Resolved Conference on June 24th.
  • Desiring God National Conference (Minneapolis, MN)
    I'll be speaking at the Friday pre-conference track for the DG national conference, "Lessons in the Seasons of Life," on September 28, 2012.
  • Covenant Life Church (Gaithersburg, MD)
    I'll be speaking on issues of productivity and work/life balance to the women of Covenant Life Church on Friday evening, July 20, 2012.
  • Christian Working Woman Conference (Chicago, IL)
    I'll be speaking at the Christian Working Woman's annual conference on March 23-25, 2012.
  • Downline Ministries (Memphis, TN)
    I'll be teaching at the Downlines Ministries Institute on Monday, Jan. 23, 2012.

Citygate Films Twitter Updates

    follow me on Twitter

    Blog info

    • Search this blog

      powered by FreeFind

    • Creative Commons License

    • Quoting and Linking
      Unless otherwise noted, all contents copyright 2005-12 Carolyn McCulley. If you are quoting this blog, please provide a cite and link back. Thanks for this courtesy!
    • Bible Translation
      All Scriptures are from the English Standard Version (Crossway Bibles) unless otherwise noted.